Kosovo – what’s so special about borders?
In the 21st Century – and within the context of bringing both countries into the EU – borders need not be impermeable and enclaves of states within states need not create insurmountable problems.
By Gerard M. Gallucci
The foreign affairs chiefs of the US and EU visited Serbia and Kosovo last week. The main focus was Kosovo and urging both sides to move forward in the renewed dialogue to be overseen by the EU. The pair apparently did not ask that Serbia recognize Kosovo but clearly supported the Pristina position that division of Kosovo is off the agenda and a formula for the north must be found within those parameters. As has been repeatedly stated by Quint and Pristina officials, that means abolishing the “parallel” Serbian institutions in Serb-majority areas of Kosovo and especially in the north. US secretary of state, Hilary Clinton, reportedly told the press after her meeting with Kosovo prime minister, Hashim Thaci, that the US opposes “any discussion of territorial changes or reopening Kosovo’s independent status…the boundaries of an independent, sovereign Kosovo are clear and set.”
The EU and US finesse the recognition issue by asking only for a “progressive normalization” while also making clear that Serbia will not ultimately enter the EU until it has recognized Kosovo. Belgrade was quick to note that neither Clinton – nor EU high representative for foreign affairs, Catherine Ashton – outright demanded that Serbia recognize Kosovo and that this would not, in any case, happen. The government also continued to pledge that its new Kosovo platform will be presented to parliament soon while hinting that no one should expect very much from it. Indeed, as noted previously, it remains difficult to see how Belgrade can emerge with a policy very different from the one pursued by the past government of trying to placate the EU by engaging with Pristina on practical matters while leaving final status for later. Progress can indeed be made on customs, electricity, and telephones – all of which can be dealt with on a status-neutral basis. It remains, however, politically impossible for the Serbian government to outright give up its Kosovo claim or to surrender the north to Pristina. So far the Quint is not offering any other way out for Serbia than to accept these two outcomes.
There are ways to square the circle by adapting some version of an Ahtisaari Plus approach. There are also ways to sidestep the question of sovereignty. Perhaps the US and EU will eventually push Pristina to accept such an approach to keeping the north within Kosovo while allowing it to continue to function as part of Serbia. There are no signs, however, that the Quint is willing to be that imaginative and practical. This leaves only partition as a way to give both sides something while Serbia loses “Kosovo.”
Every once in a while it may be useful to ask again what exactly is so sacrosanct about Kosovo’s borders? The carving out of Kosovo from Serbia was a partition and violated borders. It was not foreseen by the UN Security Council decision (UNSCR 1244) to send peacekeepers there to help oversee substantial autonomy within Serbia. All across Europe, parties and groups have contested and are contesting existing state borders. Neither the UN nor the EU have jumped into these to support any claim to new borders within existing borders. Where groups use violence, state authorities counter with force. More to the point, where such movements push their views through the ballot, the prospect of changing borders through peaceful means has been accepted. Parties pushing for regional statehood contest elections in Belgium, Italy and elsewhere. The UK government has recently granted Scotland the opportunity to have a vote on independence in 2014.
So, why not allow the peoples of Kosovo to vote on their status? (“Peoples” because despite the myth of multi-ethnicity, Kosovo is a collection of ethnic communities.) Why should any community be forced to live in a country they do not choose, especially when some – the Serbs – are being ordered to abandon the country they were born into? Allow all of the municipalities foreseen within the Ahtisaari Plan to vote on whether they are part of Kosovo or Serbia? The northern four will vote for Serbia as may a few of the southern ones. In the 21st Century – and within the context of bringing both countries into the EU – borders need not be impermeable and enclaves of states within states need not create insurmountable problems. This would be a truly European approach to settling the question of Kosovo.
Gerard M. Gallucci is a retired US diplomat and UN peacekeeper. He worked as part of US efforts to resolve the conflicts in Angola, South Africa and Sudan and as Director for Inter-American Affairs at the National Security Council. He served as UN Regional Representative in Mitrovica, Kosovo from July 2005 until October 2008 and as Chief of Staff for the UN mission in East Timor from November 2008 until June 2010.
To read TransConflict’s policy paper, written by Gerard and entitled ‘The Ahtisaari Plan and North Kosovo’, please click here.
RT @TransConflict: Kosovo – what’s so special about borders? : In the 21st Century – and within the context of bringing both coun… htt …
RT @TransConflict: Kosovo – what’s so special about borders? : In the 21st Century – and within the context of bringing both coun… htt …
Again this Galucci Character coming up with new solutions.
the European Commission is losing credibility with candidate countries as well as future candidate countries by constantly moving the goalposts for Serbia. Moreover, the actions of the quint have already started to affect other parts of Europe (e.g. Spain, the U.K,…Venice). I wouldn’t rule out a change of policy by some EU countries where we might end up with a couple of them crossing the carpet to the side that support Serbia’s position on Kosovo.
The argument is incoherent. If borders are ultimately inconsequential (and I agree that they ought to be), then why even bother with the partition of Kosovo? Obviously, the author’s European rhetoric betrays his actual policy agenda. Mr. Gallucci is very interested in borders, in particular, those of a strong, hegemonic Serbian state. Hence his involvement with the revisionist and Serb nationalist Lord Byron Foundation.
For the record, I don’t even know what the “Lord Byron Foundation” is and have no interest in finding out as I am just a retired observer these days..
Then you might want to take up issue with the Foundation in question for endorsing your work, and plastering it all of their website without your apparently knowing it, Sir. Link: http://www.balkanstudies.org/gerard-m-gallucci
Mr. Gallucci, being Serbophile does not make you smart. What you say is a piece of crap.
Just imagine how unsmart,cinical or unrealistic you are: In total there are only 5% to 7% Serbs in Kosovo. From them, only 40% of Kosovar Serbians live in the Northern Kosovo which means that 60% of Kosovar Serbs live outside the north. As a very small ethnic minority, Serbs in Kosovo have the most advanced rights in the world. This came directly as a result of compromise made by Kosovo institutions & representatives prior to independence. Of course the compromises were not litely accepted by Kosovars because. Indeed, they were discrimiantive towards the majority (Kosovar Albanians who by the way are 85% to 92%) . Therefore this was a major compromise made but it was also a final one. The rights of Kosovo Serbs are almost broader than rights of serbians in Serbia itself.
Now you say to separate northern Kosovo which is 17% of Kosovo territory inhabited currently by around 15% to 20% Albanians. There are about 25%-35% of other Kosovo Albanian population which have properties in the Northern Kosovo but can not visit their properties. Therefore it puts the number of Albanians who live currently or have properties in Northern Kosovo at around 40% to 50%. So do you think that you can kick their a$$ that easy? I don’t think so. I think your argument of listening the will of only Serbian population is totally unbased and idiotic.
Futhermore, Ahtisary Plan is a final proposal, you can not reopen it. But Question is why if you open it? Well let me tell you what. If you open the border issue than I will personally open the issue of positive discrimination and the so-called “Serbian heritage” in Kosovo. There were compromises made with particular purpose to satisfy Kosovo serbs. If Kosovo Serbs does not want Kosovo’s offer. Than Albanian will not accept Serbian offer of partition without removing its offer from the table. Serbian Language would be removed from the official use. Serbian orthodox churches will no longer be Serbian but Kosovo Orthodox Churches. Their Patriarchs would no longer be under Serbian Orthodox Church but under Kosovo Orthodox Church or why not under Albanian Orthodox Church. The Kazimestan will no longer be a place where Serbian nationalists will be gathered. And of course in order for that to happen Preshevo, Medvedje and Bujanovac will have to be exchanged.
So mister Serbolub Gallucci, do you think all these things will be allowed to happen just to make your beloved Serbs happy? Or indeed do you still think that partition of Kosovo will make Serbs happier than the Ahtisaari Plan? Do you realize now how unsmart, idiotic and unjustified your views are?
And do you realize how hypocritical you sound? If I were a Serb (I’m not) living in Kosovo (I don’t), and I read your statement, it would scare the hell out of me. What your statement clearly says is that on paper, the Ahtisaari plan was adopted by the noble Kosovo institutions, but in the hearts and minds of the Kosovo Albanians, it’s an unfair piece of crap. So on one hand you’re touting the compromise, and on the other, you condemn it. And you wonder why the Serbs are reluctant to sign on to this? Really? Well I imagine this is their perspective; there are only five to seven percent of Serbs in Kosovo and they are surrounded by an Albanian population who will forever despise them. Thanks for making this crystal clear.
Well if the Albanians in the Presevo valley can votebif they wanna be a part of Serbia or not, them I’m fine with your proposal…
And while we’re at it, let all other minorities vote if they wanna be a part of this or that and lets create new countries with enclaves inside autonomous regions inside other enclaves. After all borders dont matter, right? Or do they…?
If that’s the case, wouldn’t that also mean Bosnian Serbs can leave Bosnia through referendum?
The answer to the question of how far to go with using popular referendum to settle such questions – ones of disputed statehood – is not entirely straightforward. For example, how small a territory or community can become “independent” and still be viable? Where would the boundary be drawn to identify the relevant population and who would draw it? But some quite small states exist in the world, including in Europe. Kosovo is one. When it comes to expressions of ethnic identity or self-identification as nation, practicalities don’t always seem to rule.
More directly to your question, why should Europe object to partitioning BiH when Scotland will get to vote on leaving the UK?
“Serbs in Kosovo have the most advanced rights in the world.” Ugh, have you ever been to Kosovo? I have, and I can most certainly tell you your assertion is nothing more than trite propaganda. The putative “rights” Kosovo Serbs enjoy are nothing more than words on paper. I have no doubt you are fully aware of the fact that when Northern Kosovo Serbs visited the Orthodox grave in Southern Mitrovica last weekend they had to do so under extensive police protection. When I went to the same grave last year, even though I am an American citizen, I could not get out of the car. And that says nothing of the Kosovo Serbs living in ghettos and reservations. That’s hardly the “most advanced rights in the world”.
In any event, what’s wrong with allowing Northern Kosovo Serbs to join Serbia? And if Presevo Valley Albanians and Sanjak want to leave Serbia, or Bosnian Serbs leave Bosnia, then that’s fine so long as it is the will of the people.
This is situation in the north caused in particular because of criminals in the north who expelled more than 12K of Albanians and killed at least 13 of them. This happened after the withdrawal of Serbian forces. Even now just try and take a car with Kosovo plates and you see what happens in the north and how you would be attacked from them. This is a vicious circle that must be ended but in any circumstance you can;t deny that a minority group such as Serbs in Kosovo have granted rights never seen in our world. Its a question, however, whether Serbs want to use such rights.
Another great article by Mr. Galluci, but the issue of “accept Kosovo as-is” vs. “partition” seems to be rather black and white.
Why not push for a middle-ground solution, namely supporting substantial autonomy for northern Kosovo within a loose Kosovo framework along the same patters as Bosnia? If borders don’t matter, Bosnia should be the perfect example of a state that looks uniform on paper but highly decentralized in reality. It is true the United States is irrationally adamant on preserving Kosovo in whatever questionable framework it put it in as sacrosanct and unchanging, but can’t that framework accommodate an autonomous north? There are no signs the Quint is even remotely interested in finding ways of “integrating” the north beyond the repetitive and worn out statements about needing to “abolish” what they regard as “parallel institutions”. What they really seem to be interested in is cutting Belgrade’s direct cord with the north, and from the events that took place in July 2011 and after (especially with the previous-led DS government), it would seem the local Serb communities and especially the four mayors of the north would have no problem having Belgrade off their backs in order to run their own affairs.
So it seems pretty simple: offer substantial autonomy to those “parallel institutions”, effectively turning them into what they are: locally supported institutions. It’s not like Pristina has any legitimate authority there anyway. With substantial autonomy already offered to placed like Catalonia, South Tyrol, Flanders, and Republika Srpska, this should be a no brainer. The Ahtisaari Plan already set the stage for autonomy for most, if not all, of the Serbian municipalities so I really can’t figure out why additional autonomy with comprehensive self management seems such a difficult concept for either the Quint or their Albanian proxy leadership in Pristina. I’m not a fan of partition, but I can see the more logical solution in further decentralization and cantonization of Kosovo.
What you suggest is what many have called Ahitsaari Plus. This was the subject of a proposal made in TransConflict a year ago: http://www.transconflict.com/2011/11/ahtisaari-plan-north-kosovo-011/ Substantial autonomy for northern Kosovo going beyond the solid basis offered by President Ahitsaari by limiting Pristina’s role in local affairs could preserve Kosovo as a territorial unit. But until now, Pristina and its allies have instead preferred the outright surrender of the north to Pristina’s authority.
It is primarily the West – and not the Albanians – that is against partition. Many Albanians would be happy to see the Serb-majority region in the north go as that would imply Serbian recognition and also a mutually agreed border with Serbia that prevents future trouble. They might want something in return (like Presevo) but that is another story.
I believe the principle should be “don’t change borders, but if you have to do it, do it well” – that is: do it along ethnic lines as long as it doesn’t bring too much fragmentation. The problem with Ahtisaari Plus or other autonomy plans is that they don’t change the fact that the north tip should never have been assigned to an independent Kosovo, that everyone knows that in his heart and that as a consequence there will always be a smell of illegality about the border there – even if Serbia was forced to recognize it.
It is at that point that Kosovo’s north tip is a fundamentally different problem from those other regions – were the borders date from a time before popular will was a major issue in the determination of borders.
It is this lack of moral legality that drives politics of both the West and Pristina. The West has consistently refused to “create another Republika Srbska” and Pristina has just as consistently refused to get real about autonomy. In fact I expect that if the Pristina authorities ever gets control of the area they will implement a policy of Albanization, probably advertised as “development”.
Always amuses me to see how hysterical the Albanian lobby get when somebody profers a reasoned suggestion to the Kosovo imbroglio. Kosovo’s status is by no means a done deal despite the US and EU pronouncements. If it were, so much energy and cajoling would not need to be invested in persuading Serbia to relinquish her rights there. kosovo is not independent until Serbia says so. Thaci and his gang know that otherwise why would they bother meeting Dacic in Brussels. They are desperate for the Serbs to say yes. Serbia was partitioned when Kosovo was shorn away from her. Trying to make out it was something else is laughable. Building mosques, vandalising churches, and desecrating cemetaries won’t change that. And I might add directing abusive comments at the author of this piece won’t change anything either.
Its interesting how Serbia’s prime Dacic meets with “Thaci and his gangs”??? Nevertheless, negotiations were NOT asked from Kosovo but from Serbia. Your mind would say that an entity statehood is dependent from one state but there IS NO single evidence on that. Nobody in Kosovo bothers whether Serbia recognizes Kosovo or not. If it does, that’s fine. If not, again, that’s fine, its Serbia’s problem on keeping the path toward European integration. In fact EU told Serbia VERY clear that must respect TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY of Kosovo and everyone knows to whom belong principle of territorial integrity. Of course only and exclusively to STATES. In other words, JUSTICE must be APPLIED TO ALL. If there is demand for more autonomy for Kosovo Serbs in the north, there should be willingness for autonomy of different, much larger groups in Serbia.
In total there are only 5% to 7% Serbs in Kosovo…I would rather say that there are some 20% Albanians in Serbia, my dear Archie.
Gerard says “So, why not allow the peoples of Kosovo to vote on their status?”. This is a good question for 50K of Serbs in northern Kosovo. But what about 100K of Albanians in southern Serbia? What about more than 100K of Bosniaks in Sandjak (southern Serbia)? What about 400K of Hungarinas in Vojvodina (northern Serbia)? Of course not to mention other cases in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia. Just take for example 700K of Albanians in Macedonia. They don’t have even 20% of rights granted for Serbs in Kosovo, those in the north in particular.
Why not asking these people whether like or not living within Serbia if there is a need to asking 40K of Serbs in northern Kosovo?? Where is justice here? Of course there is not of any kind of justice but personal interests of person called Gerad Gallucci.
“But what about …”
Unlike Kosovo these are areas that have long been part of the same state. And that state have provided them with a reasonable quality of government.
Compare that to Northern Kosovo that has never been real part of independent Kosovo and that has no reason to expect a decent level of government from Pristina (see the recent OSCE report).
Fadil, you know very well that there is not only 50K of Serbs in regard of Kosovo and Metohia. Beside that, could you elaborate with some more details about Galluci’s personal interests, I believe it would be interesting for all the audience here.
There are just 50K of Serbs living in the northern Kosovo. The others are integrated within Kosovo institutions. In fact there are some promising new from the north as well. Why one should believe in the personal interests of Gallucci?? Simply because he failed to explain to us, at least once in his life, why he supports so strong northern Serbs in Kosovo. If there are Serbs deserving more autonomy, they are settled in the south not in the north of Kosovo. So if there is no justice here, what else should be in question but personal interests??
So, he is guilty until he proves his innocence…you are funny guy, Fadil, it is always a pleasure and joy to exchange opinions with you…but, speaking about Serbs, how about some hundreds of thousands living as internally displaced persons in other pars of Serbia, beside Kosovo and Metohia? You deny their rights , or…
Gerard served as UNMIK administrator for years in the municipality of Mitrovica. He knows perfectly the situation ie. no body touched Serbs in the north of Kosovo. In fact Serbs from the north of Kosovo killed many Albanians and expelled some 12K of Albanians from their houses and flats. In this regard, Serbs in the north of Kosovo could be the last group in the planet deserving autonomy.
Arguing and promoting not just autonomy but much more than that, ONLY for northern Kosovo, is not a right thing so only naive people could not see personal interest here.
I would kindly ask you who are those “hundreds of thousands living as internally displaced persons”??
So, as you said…he knows the situation perfectly and he advocates separation of the northern part of Kosovo and Metohia. Have you ever considered that he is maybe right. Especially as you don’t know who are IDPs in the rest of Serbia which shows your attitude towards Serbs and others who were expelled after UCK’s glorious victory 1999. If you deny something, it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. But, Fadil, at least we agree in some details regarding mr Galluci. Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Metohia will not be divided, it will remain as one entity with agreed level of independence, waving Serbian and, optionally, other flag(s). And, finally, if I were Galluci, I would ask you personally to explain your claims about personal interests. Are those personal interests of the same nature as Kushner’s, Clarc’s and others’ who successfully conducted privatisation of properties in KiM?
If he “advocates separation of Kosovo”, its his problem not that of Kosovars. If Gerard believes he is right he should explain that. Up to now he failed to tell as A SINGLE reason why Serbs from northern Kosovo should have higher degree of autonomy or maybe even being part of Serbia. I find very ridiculous saying “they wish so”. OK I wish salary of million euro per month but my boss doesn’t want that even I insist every day. So that is not the reason.
As for IDP’s i told you showing the number since you mentioned some “hundreds of thousands”. To the best of my knowledge and according to registration of population in Kosovo (conducted from Milosevic’s regime) there were only 194 thousands of Serbs in Kosovo on 1991. Taking into account negative birth rate for Serbs, there was possibility of being some 190K of Serbs in Kosovo on 1999. Having in mind that 130K of them currently live in Kosovo I really can’t understand how “hundreds of thousands” left Kosovo and live as IDP’s in Serbia!!! Look, mathematics is very bad in this regard because it shows the truth when one is not telling the truth. So mathematics and statistics say that only 60K of Serbs left Kosovo on 1999 but not for sure “hundreds of thousands”.
As for Kosovo status there is no agreement neither it will be. Kosovo is independent and sovereign state and will never talk which flag will be in use or matters in regard to its status.
As for personal interests you should ask the person who is fighting on that.
http://www.internal-displacement.org/idmc/website/countries.nsf/%28httpEnvelopes%29/0FDDBEFDFE2EE97EC1257648002E0BB8?OpenDocument#40.2.1 …but they are Serbs…who cares. Personal interests…you were the first to mention that, so be consistent and answer. If you respect the audience in this forum.
I am mentioning registration from Serbia conducted on 1991. This is reliable source and logical one. If you can convince us that Serbs, who have negative birth rate, could be more than DOUBLED for 8 years than its fine. Maybe you can discover new mathematics and statistics. Just tell us: how come that a population with negative birth rate could be DOUBLED instead of, as logic says, downsizing???? As for personal interests, again, ask the author of this article.
Who is “us”, I was talking to you (singular) , Fadil, I don’t talk before some comity or something like that, so that I have to tell you (plural) …or uncertainty demands support from the group. Beside that, in every post you mention Serbs’ population characteristics (negative birth rate, unpopulated areas etc.) involving biological categories in one conflict which is the matter of state sovereignty. The categories like “lebensraum” and similar…. Anyway, there are data on link I provided, you may freely comment it
This is not the first or the last article of Gerard Gallucci related to Kosovo and the north in particular. Many people, including, me asked him to give logical reasons why he supports so hardly Kosovo Serbs from the north but not mentioning at all, for instance, Serbs living in the south! Do you find this strange??
As for me there is no uncertainty at all.
As for “Serbian population characteristics” I am mentioning something that is true.
As for link you provided its in contradiction with more reliable source such as registration of population.
One reason: The Serbs living in the north seem to not wish to be part of the new Albanian-majority declared independent state of Kosova. They were not born there and do not wish to be part of it, or so it seems from their continued resistance to being so incorporated despite Quint bullying. This same sort of reason was enough for the Kosovo Albanians to declare they did not wish to remain in Serbia. I do not support either side but simply note that political conclusions should be drawn from these facts. I have never argued for or against Kosovo independence. I do not argue now for separation of the north but simply suggest it seems to be the most stable way to end the conflict over it.
PS: I do indeed “hardly” support the northern Kosovo Serbs. But I do hardily support peaceful compromise.
Not that your opinion counts, or mine for that reason, as nobody will ask us what we think. But this will be the one time, I think even the only time. I will ever agree with you.
My great grandfather was not born in Serbia but he was forced to live in Serbia in 1912, him and the other 4 million Albanians. So, whats your point here?
How about the Hungarians, Albanians, and the Sanxhak Muslims they were not born in Serbia either. And they do not want to live in Serbia even now especially after their ethnic cleansing adventures.
Serbia which you ‘hardly’ support is lucky she didn’t lose more of its territory, although judging by their past adventures it doesn’t look like this will be the last time they will have to return occupied land to other nations who will demand to be free too, unless they change their ways, which I ‘hardly’ believe so.
I think your arguments are ‘hardly’ nationalistic and one sided, and luckily you are in minority, as otherwise we all know about the Balkan wars, WW1 and Yugoslav wars and they all one way or the other are connected to Serbian territory expansion.
P.S I can ‘hardly’ understand now, why you no longer hold an important post.
And good luck in finding more arguments and writing more, for such a world renown Paper as is this one.
Gerard, i had already an example of “not wishing”. Just imagine the world of people “not wishing” something. Can we imagine our planet and the possibility of being “the most stable way to end the conflict” whether we can afford wishes of anybody???!!! Even little kids would laugh with such a statement. I should remind you of your non logical and false comparing of Albanians in former Yugoslavia and 50K of Serbs in northern Kosovo. Albanians NEVER and EVER said just one reason of “not wishing” to live within Serbia. There were too many other reasons but “not wishing”. It was a constant terror, apartheid and criminal acts of Serbia that forced Albanians to ask for another solution than living with state of terror. None of these things occurred with northern Serbs in Kosovo. In this regard we heard many times Serbs living in the south of “not wishing” to live in “Albanian state” and they had much more reasons to do so. But Serbs in the south (who are not born in the state of Kosovo), now accepted the fate and want to be part of Kosovo society. The same would happen with Serbs in the north. They will do the same as their compatriots in the south once they realize that there is no support for them in achieving their dreams.
You say “the most stable way to end the conflict”! You must be kidding. If you think we suffer from amnesia you can say so but everyone knows your statements against Kosovo independence.
In the end, if you would support “peaceful compromise” you would support aspiration of other people not just those living in northern Kosovo. In fact, giving some special rights just to a certain group, would create similar situations so for example who could stop Albanians in southern Serbia of putting barricades in order to achieve their aspiration???
First of all I don’t believe that I’m reading this NAZI blog written by Galluci.
Thanks to people like Galuci and Carl Bildt srbs had a chance to do what they did, in the territories of ex yugoslavia.When I say srbs had a chance to do what they did, that means all the victims in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo, all that territory cleansing from a specific nation or ethnicity, who were not srbs.
People like Galuci and Carl Bildt rewarded srbs for all those atrocities by giving them territories like Srebrenica, so instead of being punished for what they did in Srebrenica, they get rewarded for ethnic cleansing, by taking that territory that they just cleaned from non srbs.
I could write millions of pages for what srbs did 1991-1999 in ex Yugoslavia, but it’s not worth it,Mr Galluci and his comrades now’s it all, but they rather would make fun with victims of Serbian terror, by saying that srbs didn’t do it. Now WHO DID IT , IF SRBS DIDN’T DO IT?
Mr. Galluci would say Milosevic did it.
But there is one thing, for sure that I or 16 million non srbs in ex Yugoslavia didn’t vote for Milosevic, but innocent srbs did.
And they did have knowledge of what is about to happen in exyugoslavia, that’s why they voted of Milosevic, they wanted to go around and kill, steal, rape, and what not. But when they finally lost , they turn around and turn Milosevic in Hague, not for what he did, but for what he did not do, and he had a chance.
So I guess , in order to make Mr. Galluci and his comrades happy , this would be really good if it happens:
‘’Let’s all non srb people of ex Yugoslavia turn into srbs, give the real srbs the right to kill us , rape our women, take everything we had or have etc.’’
Would that make you and your comrades happy Mr. Galluci?
I Don’t expect Mr. Galluci or Carl Bildt , will understand what I just wrote , but one thing is sure, it is impossible to train the trainers. He is like the fly that keeps beating itself against closed window panel and never tires yet has a huge infectious grin the during the entire fruitless effort.
4 mil Albanians in Serbia in 1912!? I am surprised… But that’s the way how Albanians based their thoughts… Why not tell it like it is? Albanians dream about Great Albania for a long time and all that happened on the Kosovo was because Serbia this time has no allies but Albanian somehow get them. When somebody says that that his grandparents lived in 1912 in some other country then in Serbia, should remember that in that time Albanians and Turkey was fighting against Serbia and they were defeated. Albanians in WW1 was again on the opposite side from Serbia doing what they best know – killing old peoples and demolishing buildings etc and they lost again. Same story in WW2. Austro-Hungarian monarchy attacked Serbia in WW1 and they were defeated in first attempt. Then they called Germany for help, and was defeated again from Serbian’s army. They they call another ally… Now Albanians on Kosovo are again together with Germany this time trying to convince whole world how they have to have their state because they were oppressed and that’s a place they are from and they are living there from who-knows-when BC. If we remember that during 80’s there was situations that in one school was all Albanian’s children poisoned and neither from Serbian’s children despite the fact that all of them was drinking same water, than all is clear. Some one asked Mr. Gallucci to give reason why North Of Kosovo should be out of Kosovo I am asking why Kosovo should be independent? Please don’t tell me because Milosevic killed few millions of Albanians. That same guy made more problem to Serbians than for anybody else. What Albanians made on Kosovo? All that you have now was made by State Of Serbia and nobody else – Albanians didn’t do nothing, always asking for help and they were living there!? When they make problem in Europe they say “we are from Serbia” but when they didn’t make problem then they are Ethnic Albanian’s!?
Why you don’t stop with lies?? Albanians on 1912 fought against Ottomans and wanted independence but were attacked from criminal Serbian soldiery. That was perfectly mentioned from many sources. The International Commission on the Balkan Wars said “Houses and whole villages reduced to ashes, unarmed and innocent populations massacred en masse, incredible acts of violence, pillage and brutality of every kind — such were the means which were employed and are still being employed by the Serbo-Montenegrin soldiery, with a view to the entire transformation of the ethnic character of regions inhabited exclusively by Albanians”
As we can see, the international Commission says “with a view to the entire transformation of the ethnic character of regions inhabited exclusively by Albanians”. Its very CLEAR that the territory of Kosovo was INHABITED EXCLUSIVELY from ALBANIANS on 1912 and had been occupied through massacres of Serbian criminal soldiery.
MEMBERS OF THE BALKAN COMMISSION OF INQUIRY
Dr. Josef Redlich, Professor of Public Law in the University of Vienna.
Baron d’Estournelles de Constant, Senator.
M. Justin Godart, lawyer and Member of the Chamber of Deputies.
Dr. Walther Schiicking, Professor of Law at the University of Marburg.
Francis W. Hirst, Esq., Editor of The Economist.
Dr. H. N. Brailsford, journalist.
Professor Paul Milioukov, Member of the Douma.
Dr. Samuel T. Dutton, Professor in Teachers’ College, Columbia University.
But yet there was 4 milions of Albanians in 1912 and I am telling lies?
Ignorance is a bliss!
FYROM, Kosovo, Montenegro were all Serbia in 1912.
Include the Albanians that Rankovic expelled to Turkey, add the Ex Yug Albanian diaspora (from 1912 to 1998 – prior the war)in Germany, Usa, and all around the world (you will find that the largest population that emigrated from ex-Yug were YES the Albanians.
Then add the todays population of FYROM, Kosovo, Preshevo Valley, and Montenegro.
You don’t seem to surprise me at all with your ignorance, as the crimes that your state has done many of you were never aware of, is well recorded in the west. Now the ‘Info’ in the way it was done is coming from archives of Slovenia and Croatia. There are plenty of books on this subject, and yet you ask yourself why Kosovo is independent, is beyond my comprehension.
There were 4.5 million Albanians left outside the official borders of Albania in 1912 including the Chameria (officialy Northern Greece).
But of course we all came from ‘small’ Albania after 1946 and the generous Serbs gave us free Land that we own to this day.
What a load of RUBBISH!
I am talking about 1912 and @Fadil told that then was 4 millions of Albanians in Kosovo – I am not going to add anything now! I am potentiating on this because this is general of Albanians approach – your informations are not correct, when you need it’s bigger or smaller. When you like you call source from the west, when you don’t like information from the west you said it’ s not correct like for example about number of IDP’s given here http://www.internal-displacement.org/idmc/website/countries.nsf/%28httpEnvelopes%29/0FDDBEFDFE2EE97EC1257648002E0BB8?OpenDocument#40.2.1
And that’s the way how you manipulate with information. I am very interested in finding some solution for Kosovo – I had enough of it, but standing on position that you are the only one who is right and other side is not wouldn’t solve problem. If you forget on project Great Albania and try really to find solution where probably no one would be satisfied, maybe we will have normal living conditions – if one side is not satisfied and other gets everything no peace on Balkan would be establish – remember this!
Yes, i wast talking about events on year 1912 as well. I did not mentioned any numbers but cited the report of International Commission on the Balkan wars, which said clearly that Kosovo had been the land inhabited EXCLUSIVELY from Albanians. And these Albanians were massacred from Serbian soldiery.Your lie here was accusing Albanians to fighting with Turks or Ottomans against Serbia. In fact Albanians fought against Ottomans to be freed from them and achieve independence. On that year Albanians declared independence and in a few days we are going to celebrate that day. There were Serbs attacking Albanians in their land and there are many sources including that report I have mentioned.
There are even Serbian officers giving evidence on that such as Dimitrije Tucovic, saying: “We have carried out the attempted premeditated murder of an entire nation. We were caught in that criminal act and have been obstructed. Now we have to suffer the punishment…. In the Balkan Wars, Serbia not only doubled its territory, but also its external enemies “. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitrije_Tucovi%C4%87
As for IDPs, if you want debate then I would ask you to kindly tell here how many Serbs would have been living in Kosovo on June 1999??
Less then in a March 1999 for sure – I don’t intend to give here number because you will probably say it’s a lie – tell me is it a lie that all that is build in Kosovo is build by Serbian state, what Albanians have built there? I know much more about Dimitrije Tucović then you think. Sorry about comment for 4 millions on 1912 – it wasn’t your comment but from your friend Dulo. Also Serbians can’t forget what Turkey’s and their friends done to Serbian – impalement on stake, something nobody never done to anyone!!! Don’t try to show Albanians as the only victim. I am telling again – if we can’t have solution acceptably for all no peace will be here and Kosovo wouldn’t be a state – you can call it but is it? There is no place for justice just who have stronger allies, it’s matter of uniting Albanians in Great Albania – nobody here says that it is not a true. By the way, you should learn some manners when you speak in public…
OK, you could say number of Serbs on March 1999, no problem. Since there was no registration on that time let agree with non disputable process pf registration conducted from Milosevic’s regime on 1991. That’s fine for me, even its done from Serbian government lead from Milosevic who is responsible for many crimes. And we have exact number of Serbs on that process, with figures of 194K of them. Second fact is negative birth rate for Serbs so on March 1999 their maximum could be some 190K of them but OK I would accept even 200K. Now, knowing that in Kosovo live some 130K of Serbs and at the same time 200K of them as IDPs live in Serbia is simply non logic and with no ground.
Your questions are indeed ridiculous. Even we accept that “large Serbian migration” on 1689 and Kosovo is filled with Albanians thereafter do you want to say that Albanians did not built anything for 300 years??? Secondly, Serbs in Kosovo ruled much less than Ottomans, Bulgarians, Byzantine empire and so on. According to you none of them built something in Kosovo or maybe you believe that history began on the time Slovene people came from Carpathian Mountains. No my friend, history began much earlier.
As for “showing Albanians as victim” there is no my intention at all. Do you see, I never use Albanian sources for suffering of Albanians. What I want to say here is just the truth.
As for solution “acceptable for all” I believe that we have one and that is Kosovo is independent and sovereign state with its borders as it is. Serbs in Kosovo have rights granted for them with no such level in planet Earth. I believe Albanians, Bosnikas, Hungarians, Bulgarians etc in Serbia should have the same level of rights as Serbs in Kosovo.
As for Kosovo being a state or not, its neither you nor Serbia deciding on that. In this regard its important that Kosovo is recognized from almost half of world states and that process continues.
I urge you and everybody in Serbia accept having normal relations between two states Kosovo and Serbia and together continue European integration. This is the best way of going forward.
There is no Greater Albania, there is only Albania.
‘Greater’ would mean Albanians would like to conquer other nations land. Albanians in Kosovo as in Fyromia, Montenegria are and always have been ‘Landowners’.
Which is not to say the same for the Serbians.
Again, Albanians in Kosovo, as in Fyrom and Montenegria are in the land that they have owned for centuries, long before you ‘the Slavs’ have arrived in the balkans.
And on the account of your close relations to Russia you had your ‘Great Serbia’, and its still ‘Great’. But, not for long if you haven’t learned your lesson in the last century.
Albanians ARE the victims as they have not lived as a free nation in the past century like the rest of the Europeans.
You on the other hand have been violent and murderous perpetrators of trying to ethnically cleans Albanians since 1912.
On the account of your treatment of Albanians in the 20th century Kosovo has become Independent, and soon to be part of Albania and live as free people as the rest of the Europeans, and there is nothing you, Galucci, and the rest of Serbia can do about that.
I suppose that history began with you, Albanians. Thanks for telling at the end TRUE FACT – all Albanians in one country, first Kosovo, than Macedonia and then Montenegro, that’s Great Albania, no matter price. Serbians have granted rights like no one on the earth – yes when you demolish churches, graves and monuments, kill kids from the ambush!? – that’s granted rights? You are right, other people in Serbia don’t have that kind of “granted” rights so they don’t leave Serbia. You learned a lot from Turks – instead of “impalement on stake” we have now kidnapping people and taking their organs!? – of course, it’s a business and multinational cooperation, again with Turks! Sounds familiar? You will live as rest of Europeans now for about 2 or 3 centuries… And I have to admit something to you – on each article here you have 2 ( or it’s the same ) persons making comments… ;) Eh, this Balkan will never be peaceful…
You never stop saying rubbish here. Nobody said history began with Albanians. It was you asking whether Albanians built something in Kosovo although lived here in centuries and millenniums.
No, there is no such a thing as “Great Albania”. The question of borders is closed. Balkan states have a future in Europe thus the process of European integration must go forward. Of course for states wanting that.
As for granting of rights for Serbs, its big truth. You could try to deny it by some examples of bad behavior of some individuals but you can’t deny the facts such as Serbian as official language in whole Kosovo, educational system, medical system, granted seats in Kosovo Assembly and many other rights.
As for “organ trafficking”, after we heard “witness” on that as wella as professional and scientific explanation of Serbian surgeon, professor Kronja that thing definitely is considered as fairy tale. Professor Kronja, by we way, had conducted more than 250 organ transplantation and the story of “organ trafficking”, as described from Serbian prosecution, considers as madness.
If I were not there maybe you could say anything and I could believe to you but… Kids are bad individuals? Old people are bad individuals? Everybody from Europe saying that there was organ trafficking are mad…
Rubbish is that you denial that there is no such a thing like Great Albania – what is then uniting Kosovo with Albania? Putting comment here is just a waste of time…
I am presenting here facts. If that makes you embarrassed that is your problem. So what is important being in Kosovo with things we discuss here?? Whats the importance of “everybody from Europe saying there was organ trafficking”!!! But “everybody” means everybody and I really doubt everybody in Europe knows at all for Serbs and Albanians and not to talk about fairy tale story about “organ trafficking” on 1999. Again, as I said, I never use Albanian sources but rather Serbian or international and very, very reliable sources. I know that embarrasses people like you but I am not the person to be blamed on that.
The so called story about “organ trafficking” is just made to blacken Kosovo and its leaders but there is absolutely no ground of such claims. In fact it was Serbian prosecution which gave us the most reliable evidence that such story never happened when they made a show with witness who became famous surgeon with only three weeks of training. Even today the most known professors and highly skilled surgeons in Kosovo are not capable of conducting such complex surgery operation, such as organ transplantation, but look the miracle almost an illiterate person with three weeks of training was capable of doing that!!!
And to have another level of stupidity that “trained witness”, who was able transplanting organs, according to Serbian prosecution, did that with bayonet of Kalashnikov!!! That is pretty good story for kid in the first class of elementary school.
In fact why faculties of medicine are needed at all if one is capable conducting transplantation of organs with just three weeks of training??? Why wasting time and money? Indeed Serbian prosecution deserves Nobel price for the most intriguing story ever heard.
Fadil, relax. Albanians may do whatever they want with Serbs. Gotovina is back home, Ramush will be in couple of weeks. On a second thought, why not to repeat “Storm”, it is successful project, supported by international community. P.S. If you know somebody to deal with kidneys, tell me, I have some customers, paying US cash immediately. I knew some guy named Ramush, but he will be busy till 29 Nov. (just to illustrate your level of disscussion)
No, “we” are not going to do “whatever we want” but offering to them normal life. My government in Kosovo is saying to Serbs “we are giving to you the highest level of autonomy that similar group has in the world”. The “Storm” is not an option. It can be an option only if Serbian side does that.
As for kidney problem, yes I know a case with a girl having kidney dysfunction. Her mother is ready to give her kidney and they were seeking for such guys, as described from Serbian prosecution, who with three weeks of training would do the process of transplantation because of very cheap price. Unfortunately Serbian prosecution did not tell the names of such guys so that unlucky girl now goes in Tirana, in American Hospital there, and waiting for surgeon from USA who is going to transplant to that girl her moms kidney. For much higher price of course.
So, it is option. Say clear and loud.